Something to think about

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Gerry Bishop
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Something to think about

Mike Moats, of macro fame, posted this quote from Ansel Adams on his website:

“No man [or woman] has the right to dictate what other men [and women] should perceive, create or produce, but all should be encouraged to reveal themselves, their perceptions and emotions, and to build confidence in the creative spirit.” – Ansel Adams -

So, how do you think this fits in with the CCC mission?

John Hulburt
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Not really if we are creating "art". Our rules funnel our creativity into the channel of "reality". If Monet had our rules, his work would have been much different.

Regina Miskovsky
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We have strayed a lot from art and creativity. The club was stronger in this arena in earlier days.I agree with John.

Anton Largiader
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Do you think the new rules (removing the editing restrictions in Open) will address your comment? There are several objectives that the club is trying to achieve, and they are sometimes in conflict if we try to keep the complexity level manageable.

The way I see it, the new rules give us a category that emphasizes in-camera, one that allows an altered reality, and one that promotes graphic art. I think we cover quite a few bases that way.

Gerry Bishop
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I think Anton puts this well. There's something for everyone and for every level of skill and creativity in our competition categories, so I don't see what John and Regina are driving at. As someone with 50 years of experience in photography, and with an ongoing quest for improvement and more gratifying expressions of my own creativity, I've seldom felt constrained by the club's competition parameters. And with the liberalization of the Open competition rules for 2015, I expect the feeling of creative freedom to flourish even more.

Anton Largiader
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You can't really apply rules to painting the same way, as far as realism goes (outside the photorealism movement of course!). Most of it only would fit into our old Creative category. And I think it would be great to see some well-done Impressionism show up.

There is something else to consider, though: are we an art photography club only? Is there room for photojournalism, or action, or product shots?

Sandy Hodge
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Good point, Anton. I have seen amazing photojournalism pics. What about people like Diane Arbus, Margaret Bourke White etc. amazing photos

Toni Zappone
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I wonder how the judges feel about photojournalism. Some of the photos submitted that approached that did not seem to do well.

Robert Fehnel
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Well i have been thinking about this as well.

I think there have been loose representations of product photos. I had one of a blue martini, Jim marshall i believe had a drink set with a barrel at the end of year awards. It isnt straight product photo but it is in a way product photography. It seems our judges also shy away from anything commercial because they are predisposed to an opinion on the product.

For photojournalism. I think it is tough. A child walking down the street could be photojournalism and there is a story but maybe not a great photo or a great story. Remember we cant say anything about it. However a similar shot of a kid walking down a street in a war torn country with a story is great. Photojournalism is tricky and i wonder if it isnt really story based. No story hard to be a great photo.

Michele Fletcher
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I know a photo journalist - perhaps he'd be willing to be a judge one month and perhaps next year one month could be a topic of documentary or photo journalistic nature...

Steve Muskie
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The big problem with this discussion is in the definitions of the "BIG" terms: art, photojournalism, documentary, creative, product, still life, scenic, portrait, commercial, etc. There is a lot of overlap among those categories. My background is mostly with photojournalism and documentary photography with a big dose of scenic and portrait photography thrown in. As with most people, "I know art when I see it," and it doesn't matter what category it fits in. I think that anyone who says they are exclusively a "fine art photographer" is fooling themselves. I don't believe that it's possible to set out to "make art" no matter what medium is used. Sometimes what you create is art and other times it isn't. For myself, I've never considered what I do as art. By the way, I didn't join the Charlottesville Fine Art Photography Club. I joined the Charlottesville Camera Club. During the few months that I've been a member, I have yet to see a photograph that I consider to be fine art and I don't mean that as a slight to anyone.

Steve Muskie
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Another thought about the definition of fine art. Last week my wife and I went to the Virginia Museum of Fine Arts and enjoyed looking a many beautiful examples of what the VMFA considers to be fine art. There were documentary photographs, graphic arts, statuary, paintings, drawings, architecture, tattoos, and many other creative works. Maybe we should just use their definition of what fine art is, which is very broad.

Stan Kaslusky
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Being new to the club I remember vividly one of the first meetings I experienced with Judging and the Judge introduced a rule about avoiding triangles in corners. I took a mental note - I'll have to make sure to avoid that. The following week my wife and I visited the Impressionist exhibit at the Richmond fine arts museum which featured Monet's,and many of the impressionists floral still lifes. More than half of these "Masterpieces " had triangles in the corners. - enough said.

Toni Zappone
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James DeYoung
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Nice thread! Art--realism to impressionism and beyond... In the short time I have
been a CCC member I have noticed that each month many of the topic submitted images have
been influenced by who the reviewer is, their body of work, and their interests. Hope of getting
those 4's and 5's really pulls the "focus" of images selected for submission! I admit
I do check the bio and their web sample images to see what they might like... I still
tend toward taking, producing, and submitting realistic images without a lot of "processing".
I probably do spent a few seconds looking for and fixing corner incongruities if I feel
they detract from what I am trying to present but not to the exclusion of all else--dust motes
can kill an image quicker. Are my realistic images art? In my view they are at some small level.
Therefore, I think my photographic work meets the Ansel Adams quoted statement in the first post by Gerry.

Jim Marshall
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I think it's time to invite Joe Miller back to give his presentation on "Evaluation of Great Art Through the Eyes of a Photo Club Competition Judge".